State of the Service Roadshow

[DARYL KARP, DIRECTOR OF THE MUSESUM OF AUSTRALIAN DEMOCRACY]

Hello everybody. I'm Daryl Karp, the Director of the Museum of Australian Democracy. And I'd like to welcome you all here today online and in the flesh to this magnificent House of Representatives chamber, built in 1927 and the official parliament of Australia until 1988.

I'd like to begin with an acknowledgement of country.

Dhawura nguna, dhawura Ngunnawal. Yanggu ngalawiri dhunimanyin Ngunnawalwari dhawurawari. Nginggada Dindi wanggiralidjinyin.

This is Ngunnawal country. Today we're all meeting together on Ngunnawal country. We acknowledge and pay our respects to our elders. And I'd like to particularly welcome first nations people as well as all of you here today. It's wonderful to have you both onsite, in the chamber and online.

I'd particularly like to acknowledge the honourable Ben Morton, MP, Assistant Minister to the Prime Minister and Cabinet. Assistant Minister to the Minister for the Public Service and Assistant Minister for Electoral Matters.

And I'd like to welcome the many departmental Secretaries and Senior Executives participating today. But of course, I'd like to welcome all of you from the full house here in the chambers to the 3000 registrations who are all taking part today, it's a wonderful turnout. And I should actually say, what's going on onsite is absolutely COVID safe.

Shortly, we'll hear from Peter Woolcott, the Commissioner and this will be followed by a panel discussion on the spirit of service facilitated by Mary Wiley-Smith with Caroline Edwards, Andrew Todd and Stephanie Foster. There'll be opportunities for questions from the audience after which sadly only for those onsite, there'll be a morning tea in King's Hall. But it is now my great pleasure to invite the Assistant Minister, Ben Morton, to make the keynote address, thank you.

[BEN MORTON, MP, ASSISTANT MINISTER TO THE PRIME MINISTER AND CABINET]

Thank you Daryl for that introduction and hosting us here today in this very important building and beautiful building, a cornerstone of our Australian democracy. Thank you Peter for your leadership of the Australian Public Service Commission and good morning everyone. And I too would like to acknowledge the Ngunnawal people who are the traditional custodians of this land and pay my respects to the elders, past, present and emerging.

It's a great pleasure to be here with you today. This year together, we must achieve the extraordinary again. Last year, Australians weathered the extraordinary, drought, bush fires, a global health pandemic, upheaving how we go about our daily lives, our work, individuals, communities, businesses, industries and how we do government.

The government rightly directed its energy to the pandemic in 2020. We still hold high ambitions for our nation. And now is the time for each of us to honour the resilience of the Australian people by taking practical actions to support Australia's comeback. We are the envy of many. Top U.S. health advisor, Dr. Anthony Fauci, has praised Australia's response, observing that Australia has struck the right balance between public health and opening up the economy. The signs are positive.

Of OECD countries, we have the third lowest COVID case rate and the fourth lowest death rate. Our unemployment has dropped from a high of 7.5% last July to 6.6% in December. That represents 800,000 jobs. And after experiencing record declines in mid 2020, GDP rose 3.3% in the September quarter. However, as a nation, we have so much more to do. We have the rollout of the largest vaccine program this country has ever seen. We need to continue to suppress COVID-19 and manage the inevitable hotspot outbreaks with our state counterparts. We need to cement economic recovery and keep getting people back into their jobs. We need to continue to deliver high quality essential services. Together, by working together, we will shape Australia's recovery. And just like the prime minister, I'm optimistic. Not just because the COVID-19 vaccinations have been approved and will be rolled out in coming days. Not just because the government's plan is pragmatic and focused on rebuilding Australia's economy, but because in 2020, we witnessed our Australian public service at its best.

 Newly released survey data from the Scanlon Institute reveals 85% of respondents feel that the federal government handled the pandemic well. Now this is not a scorecard of the elected members of the Morrison government alone. It demonstrates a high-performing commonwealth public service. Hardworking public servants brokering sound policy, finding practical solutions, working across silos, removing barriers and getting the job done fast and well for Australians. It's the APS at its best. Not my words, but the prime minister's words delivered to 200 of your most senior leaders at the APS, 200 late last year. The APS acted in concert with government. Getting the relationship right between government and the APS can make a tangible difference to the lives of Australians. Respect and expect.

The key example of this was the Prime Minister and Cabinet's COVID team. As the government navigated the pandemic emergency, the government relied on a dashboard of information that informed minute to minute decision-making. And this was delivered by public servants that pooled into one spot information that was ordinarily fragmented across the public service. Bringing real-time data together across all levels of government, the private sector and overseas. Enabled the government to understand the impact of COVID-19 measures on the community. Payroll data from the ATO, business and household survey information from the ABS. Infections data from Health and leveraging public and private partnerships to extend the use of shared data sets. Government decisions were informed by this data and those decisions touched the lives of every Australian. As we navigated the health and economic impacts of the emergency response.

And I would like to acknowledge the enormous effort of the Department of Health, an agency that this year, marks the hundred years since its inception. The Department of Health established in part in response to the Spanish flu. The Spanish flu was estimated to kill a hundred million people worldwide. By the year 1919, it was estimated that 40% of the Australian population were infected with the flu and around 15,000 Australians had died. Some indigenous communities recorded a mortality rate of 50%. The Spanish flu prompted calls for a coordinated national public health response across the Federation. Tracking infections, delivering emergency hospitals, vaccination depots, medical staff and public awareness measures, sounds very familiar. It provides an insight into the ongoing value of collaboration across the functions and levels of government.

 But if we fast forward today, we're a larger, more diverse population. We're linked with the global economy even more. Expectations of our citizens are changing and digital technology is accelerating. And so therefore today's APS is necessarily more complex than its 1920s self and it requires an even greater levels of integration, professional skills and an understanding of data that we've never seen before. So you acted as one APS, organisational boundaries dissolved as people came together to solve problems, each contributing their expertise to find fast, practical solutions for industry businesses and individuals. Mobilisation within and across the APS accelerated to deliver the government's COVID response is a great example. Transforming payments, rolling out JobSeeker and JobKeeper and providing early access to superannuation. The APS you see was more agile than ever before and I'm very, very proud of that and so should the APS.

Approximately two and a half thousand members of the APS moved agencies to deliver essential services working as one, working with a clarity of purpose around the needs of Australians. The success of these actions is demonstrated by the new APS surge capability reserve that has been adopted as a permanent mechanism, embedding agility to meet future demands. Many agencies also reorientated internally. The Department of Health tasked nearly every area, re-tasked in every area of its department and the ATO I'm advised, moved three and a half thousand employees internally. The Department of Industry, Science, Energy and Resources changed the way it works with industry to step up local manufacturing and supply chains of masks, hand sanitisers, respirators and emergency hospital beds, ensuring high quality critical products were available for Australians when they needed it.

The ability to adapt went beyond organisational structures. It may have been triggered by necessity but the APS embraced change that will have a long lasting impact and busted some of the long-held myths about the APS. Take the Department of Agriculture, Water and the Environment as an example. The department fast tracked border clearance processes with trusted suppliers, ensuring essential groceries and medical supplies would not be held up at the borders unnecessarily, fit for purpose regulation, lightest touch. As you know, my frustration when regulation becomes an unnecessary barrier to action, when regulation costs businesses and reduces consumer choice, inhibits investment and reduces productivity which is why deregulation is central to the government's job maker plan and why now twice a year, the departmental secretaries report to the prime minister and I on progress made within their portfolios.

And so we're working to develop a new culture, a new regulatory culture within the APS, their stewardship approach. Rather than set and forget, my expectation is the APS will remove regulation that is no longer necessary, that will cooperate across jurisdictions and will set a new standard for regulated performance in Australia. Good work is already underway and the deregulation task force in the PM&C is identifying pain points for importers and exporters to reduce costs on business and better use APS effort. Enabling the ATO and the ABF officers to focus on a higher risk enforcement efforts. Yet another example of public service agencies getting together to find better ways of working to achieve great outcomes.

So it was no surprise and it was very pleasing for me when one of your own, Brendan Murphy, was announced as ACT Australian of the Year in 2020. And I recognise his enormous contribution, but that of the coordinated effort from every APS employee that underpinned the government's COVID-19 response. Centrelink employees for example faced the thousands of distressed Australians suddenly who were without work, queuing around the block, seeking help.

COMCAR drivers, they did not lament the change in their role but rather welcomed the opportunity to go down to Tuggeranong and to work as part of the Services Australian team to help their fellow Australians from those call centres. A re-tasking, a re-education, but making sure that our focus was absolutely focused on supporting Australians when they needed it.So this combination of deep expertise, collaboration, innovation and customer service approach demonstrates the value of your work.

It is this that 18 months ago the prime minister talked of when he laid out his expectations to ministers of the APS that guided a clear line of sight to the Australian public that we act as a team, that ministers lever the experience, the professionalism and capability that you bring and that the APS delivers government decisions with a laser-like focus on the Australian people.

The APS workforce has something that is the envy of many organisations, both public and private. And that is a deep commitment to service. The 2020 APS census data backs this up. Of the five APS values, the majority of APS employees identified their commitment to service is the value that is most often applied to their work. Uniquely, this was identified across all levels, all demographics across the large and diverse Australian Public Service. 85% of employees also said they believe strongly in the purposes and objectives of the APS. Commitment to purpose is something that every parliamentarian understands. And while I may be preaching to the converted, I think we have a tremendous opportunity before us.

Satisfaction with the Australian Public Service is rising. Data from the PM&C citizen survey shows a 10 point rise in satisfaction between June 2019 and June 2020. Results from June last year shows 65% of Australians trust Australian Public Services. Up eight percentage points in 12 months. And trust in government is rising. In Australia in 2020, trust rose to 54%, the highest level recorded in surveys by the Scanlon Institute, up from the lows of 31% in 2010. Decisions by government implemented with skill, respect, integrity, and efficiency. Every interaction with the Australian citizen is an opportunity to demonstrate great policy, great services and great programs in action. It is the integrity of your actions that demonstrate the health of Australia's democracy. It is the building of this trust that in my view, will engage citizens and prompt the broad participation and a diverse APS that will benefit the future of our nation.

The APS is unique, it consists of 98 agencies with wide ranging responsibilities in more than 500 locations across the nation and the globe. In 2021, learning and development within the APS is being re-imagined through a shift to educational excellence with an emphasis on the unique skills and roles and responsibilities that you hold. Earlier this month, I announced the APS Academy, elevating the professionalism of the APS. It offers a new network model for learning and development in the APS. It's about supporting each of you to create a world-class APS. The APS Academy will be based here in Old Parliament House, an institution steeped in our democracy's history and one that I'm very passionate about. When I issued my statement of expectations to the chair of Old Parliament House, I was clear that I wanted the Museum of Australian Democracy to be a place to educate, inspire and to engage visitors in our democracy. And there are many ways that people can be more active in our democracy. Becoming a more informed voter, joining a political party or becoming an independent member of parliament. Becoming a journalist, joining the public service. And my expectation is the Museum of Australian Democracy to tell that story, to drive projects that educate people on how they can engage and contribute to our democracy. And here we have the opportunity to highlight to future generations the strength of participating, having a voice and contributing to service. See no democracy can function without a capable, competent, impartial public service. Service the Australian people for the Australian Public Service is one way that individuals can contribute to our democracy. And I've asked MOAD to work with the APSC to tell the story of the Australian Public Service, how individuals can pursue their career within the public service. So to help me in that end, I'm incredibly pleased to announce that we'll be soon beginning a new conversation with the Australian public about the role of the APS in our democracy and how the APS supports government operations and the Australian community to deliver for this country. New permanent exhibitions will be opened here in Old Parliament House, such showcasing the Australian service at its best. Those exhibitions compliment the soon to commence redevelopment of the National Electoral Education Center and a new educational exhibition that celebrates and educates about our world-leading electoral system. It's an investment in one of our key national institutions, improving facilities to create a great experience for visitors and student learnings. It's my hope that bringing these elements together excites and inspires the idea of participating further in our democracy. A career in the APS is a valuable way to do this.

So let me talk about each of these initiatives in slightly more detail. Firstly, the APS Academy. The professional skills and aptitudes of every member of the APS is essential to the implementation of government decision-making. Never has this been more important than now as we set our path on full economic recovery. Opening its doors on the 1st of July, the APS Academy will deliver on an important part of the APS reform agenda to support a world-class APS. The academy is adopting a new approach to learning and development based on partnership. It focuses on lifting core APS skills in the areas that are unique to the APS craft. Leadership, integrity, governance, policy, delivery and engagement. Leadership that inspires a sense of purpose, that drives high performance, continuing to promote a pro integrity culture. Good governance through the provision of rigorous advice to ministers, brokering policy design and development across government. Ensuring effective delivery and implementation of government decisions and constructive engagement with businesses, communities and citizens. Each of these capabilities will be designed and delivered in partnership with the agencies that have known strengths in each area, connecting to existing APS centers of excellence. In this way, the specialist expertise that the Department of Industry, Social Services and the National Indigenous Australians Agency, can be brought to engagement for example. Services Australia and the Department of Defence will help boost delivery and implementation capabilities and citizen-focused perspectives across the APS. And central agencies can help lift capabilities to support governance and policy design. The academy will also develop external networks with academic institutions and specialist providers. The academy is more than just bricks and mortar, the intention is to ensure that learning and development is accessible to all public servants irrespective of location, building on the increased access to online learning programs during 2020. Face-to-face delivery will be here within Old Parliament House. What a better place to participate further in Australia's democracy. The APS Academy will be led by the Australian Public Service Commission replacing the former APSC learning center and will also be headquartered here at Old Parliament House. And it's here the permanent exhibitions about the role of the APS in Australia's democracy will live. It means to further inspire future leaders through the story of the APS.

See, in the last parliament, a committee report talked about the importance of our national institutions to tell the story of Australia. And there is no more important story than also telling the story of the Australian Public Service when telling the story of Australian democracy. But the APS story is not well-told. It's not a role well understood across the community. So in May this year, a new exhibition will be opened here at MoAD, we'll invite visitors to learn more about the role of the APS in our democracy. Held within the Yeend suite, once occupied by PM&C Secretary, Sir Jeffrey Yeend, the exhibition will explore select case studies to bring public view the unseen work of the APS. Featuring a collection of fascinating objects and stories contributed to by APS agencies. The exhibition looks across the 120 year history of the APS, reflects on its role of the APS in supporting government decision-making and implementation. But we want to build on this. The story of the APS is not one of just supporting government decision-making but to actively support Australians in their community. And so today I'm pleased to announce that the Australian government will provide an additional $5 million to the Australian Public Service Commission to design and install a permanent public exhibition here at Old Parliament House to demonstrate the diverse role the APS plays to support the Australian community including within it, an Australian Public Service careers inspiration center to be located in the senate undercroft here at Old Parliament House. The funding will support significant capital works and refurbishment required to convert the senate undercroft into a large, permanent and modern exhibition space. The exhibition will be designed for all age engagement. The extent and diverse role that the Australian Public Service plays in supporting our democracy, government and the Australian people is a story that this exhibition will tell. The exhibition will also showcase a range of career options available in the Australian Public Service, particularly for school students as they shape their studies around future professions. Showcasing the work that you do through this exhibition, linking the academy and the careers inspiration center will develop that idea that working in the APS is a critical way to play an active role in the Australian democracy. It will expose the diversity of roles available for a career in the APS from the Australian Antarctic Division to the Australian Space Agency, to supporting veterans, to protecting our international borders, to advising on the best public policy here in Canberra. Visitors may well be surprised of the range of roles and skills across the Australian Public Service and this new space is designed to inspire a wider pool of potential recruits, attract diverse skills and perspectives into the public service. It will offer an interactive exhibition experience for all age visitors, showcasing a multitude of opportunities available in the APS as an APS career, to inspire the future generation of public servants and help shape their academic choices.

So 2021 is about the nation's comeback. A recovery supported by the Australian Public Service. And there's no doubt in my mind that the APS has a significant role in implementing the recovery plan built around protecting the health of Australians, getting people into jobs and delivering the essential services keeping Australians safe and caring for our country. 18 months ago, the prime minister reflected on the APS that to meet the challenges of today, it needs to be professional, capable, flexible, technology-enabled, citizen focused and open to diverse viewpoints. I commend the work that you've done over the past year, delivering with dedication and showing reform in action. You're demonstrating your agility. You're demonstrating how focused you are on the Australian community. A world class public service acting as one for Australia. A skilled and vibrant APS supporting government, delivering for Australians. Let's our strong partnership going to deliver the best outcome for the Australian people. Thank you.

[PETER WOOLCOTT AO, AUSTRALIAN PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSIONER]

 Good morning, it's a pleasure to be here today. I'd also like to acknowledge the traditional custodians, the land on which we meet today, the Ngunnawal people and pay my respect to the elders past, present and emerging.

Thank you minister for your keynote remarks. I'd also like to add my thanks to Daryl for hosting us to this event today. There's something special about reflecting on the public service over the last 12 months in a building that has such a rich APS history. Moreover, what adds richness to this is that we're building a strong partnership with MOAD to tell the APS story in more detail inside Old Parliament House. Together, Daryl and I are working on how to make the often invisible army of the APS more visible to the Australian community and inspire future generations of public servants.

It's also a pleasure to listen to Minister Morton on public service matters. He brings to the portfolio a passion for the public service and a deep commitment to good governance. In May last year, Minister Morton put on the record his enormous respect and pride for members of the APS and I quote him, "I could not agree more. I thank you all for your extraordinary service over the past year, you have delivered with an unwavering spirit of service. Our work continues and this year will challenge us in many ways, but I'm confident that we will meet these and the expectations of the government and the Australian people."

The service is an extraordinary institution, unique in its role, its breadth and its responsibilities. We're made up of over 150,000 people across 14 portfolios, more than a hundred agencies and authorities right across Australia and the globe. With this footprint, the APS reaches almost every aspect of the lives of Australians. Even with this breadth and diversity, we are one service. Over this past year, we pulled together often forming uncommon partnerships within the APS to get the job done. As the Minister reflected, traditional boundaries dissolved in 2020 to solve problems. We must build on this momentum and continue to operate as one enterprise. The fact is that we're at our best when galvanised by a clarity of purpose. We work together, bringing our different perspectives and disciplines to issues. And much has already been said about the challenges the country and the APS faced during 2020. Everyone in this room and listening virtually are well-versed in what we've experienced and the issues we're still responding to. The pandemic has been a dramatic test of our capability and we responded well.

At the forefront of many of our experiences was the unprecedented surge in demand for essential services. Almost every agency faced significant increases in demands for some or all of their functions. Almost half of respondents to the 2020 APS employee census indicated they've worked on activities directly related to COVID-19 since February last year. Services Australia was inundated with JobSeeker claims processing 1.3 million in just 55 days. A claim volume normally processed in two and a half years. At the peak, Services Australia employees and deployed volunteers processed more than 53,000 claims in a single day and this is an enormous feat. The Australian tax office also saw it's core volumes increase by 106% in April, 2020 as compared to the same month in 2019. All of this was being done while grappling with the workplace implications of COVID-19. We had the highest recorded point last year, 56% of all employees across the APS were working from home. And crucially, both the technology and the productivity stood up.

So what does this collective experience mean for the state of our service? I'm pleased to say that after such a challenging time, the APS employees census data tells a positive story. We're seeing increased engagement, a strong sense of purpose and commitment to service. 85% of APS employees said they believe strongly in the purpose and objectives of the APS. 91% of respondents said they understood how their role contributes to achieving an outcome for the Australian public. Almost half of all respondents said their productivity improved and around 65% of employees agreed their work group had used the pandemic to improve the way they worked. Applying APS values in everyday work is also key to success. As the minister alluded to, the census data demonstrates how strongly APS employees hold a value of commitment to service in their work. It reflects a strong focus on the Australian people in all that we do. Working with integrity is vital for our ability to serve the Australian public. It is a key driver of public trust. And trust in Australian public services, for the first time in a decade, as the minister said in his speech, is rising. There are a number of contributing factors but one that each of us has complete control over every day is our individual integrity. APS employees indicated they had witnessed less corruption in 2020 than in 2019, dropping from 4.4% to 3.5%. These figures have always been relatively low, but our focus on these matters must stay sharp.

Delivering on a commitment under the government's APS reform agenda, mandatory integrity training to new starters in the APS will soon begin. The E-module sets out foundational aspects of integrity and will be a standard support to APS employees at each stage of their career. This recognises that as people progress through the ranks, their exposure to integrity challenges and their responsibility for driving a culture of integrity becomes more acute. These courses will feature as part of the new APS Academy.

Now the Minister set out the academy's focus on lifting core APS skills that are unique to us. What is most pleasing is that the courses are being delivered in collaboration with multiple agencies. The outcomes will be better for it, it will be more practical and valuable across the APS.

As the head of professions, I'm acutely aware of the need to invest in expertise we know we need for the future. The human resources professional stream is under the strong leadership of Jackie Curtis and I'm confident we will continue to see the benefits of a more strategic approach to HR. The APS is only as good as its people and how we develop them and while we acknowledge this in the general, the reality is we still have some way to go in managing strategically our approach to human resources.

The data and digital professional streams are also of critical importance to get right. Under the guidance of David Gruen and Randall Brugeaud, our stream leads respectively, we are in excellent hands. Continued investment in lifting data and digital skills will only be as good as what we all make it. The COVID-19 response shone a light on how leveraging data improves decision-making and impacts our nation for the better. We must engage these skills strategically to shape the APS workforce of the future and take an honest look at our capabilities to lift these professional areas. All of these areas are expected to feature in the forthcoming APS workforce strategy and action plans ensure the whole APS enterprise is positioned to deliver effectively and efficiently. As a strategy for the whole APS enterprise, it is likely to focus on the following action areas. Recruiting and developing people with the expertise and skills we need, ensuring we can deliver high quality outcomes. Embracing data and technology and employing flexible workforce models to better understand the needs of Australians' informed policy implementation and deploying capability where and when it is needed and continuing to instill integrity and purpose-driven leadership essential for building trust through a coordinated seamless services that are aligned to needs and to steer this institution forward. The strategy has been developed in collaboration across the APS and I thank everyone for their contribution. We hope to be in a position to release it shortly.

We'll also be delivering a permanent APS surge reserve this year, building off the lessons learned during 2020. Last year, 2000 plus employees across the APS surged to Services Australia and more than 8,900 employees were deployed within their own agencies to work on priority tasks. The benefits of this mobilization were not limited to meeting increased demand, delivering capability or services. Employees gained new experiences and have taken these back to their home agencies. They expanded their networks, gained new skills and have a broad understanding of the APS and our direct impact on the Australian public. 84% of these employees who identified a positive element of their experience valued the opportunity to serve Australians and around two thirds said they would volunteer again to support critical government priorities. Establishing the APS surge reserve will strengthen the APS' capacity to respond quickly and at scale to meet other challenges as they arise. It is pleasing that over 2000 staff have already nominated to be part of the surge reserve, yet another testament to make the APS commitment to service. I commend this to you and encourage you to nominate for further requests.

In conclusion, the key takeaway from the census data is that the APS has been living out over the past 12 months, many of the reforms set forward in the government's reform agenda. We're changing many of our fundamental operations, investing in APS skills and reorienting our learning model, embedding mobility and strengthening our digital and data capabilities. Overwhelmingly the focus has been on operating as one enterprise and with a strong commitment to service.

There's a very big year ahead of us and much more to do. But I look forward to living it with you together and I thank you very much. And I'll now pass through Mary Wiley-Smith who will moderate what I think will be a fascinating panel discussion. Thank you.

[MARY WILEY- SMITH, DEPUTY AUSTRALIAN PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSIONER]

All right. Good morning everybody and look, thank you very much Peter. And I'd like to also just thank Assistant Minister Morton too, for his terrific support of the Australian Public Service. So today we have a panel discussion which is really focused on Spirit of the Service which, after listening to both Assistant Minister Morton and also Peter Woolcott, obviously, it's all about us, it's what we do every day. And I just want to highlight the census result that Peter mentioned in his speech which is that 91% of respondents to the APS census said that they understand how their role contributes to achieving an outcome for the Australian public. And for me, I think that says everything.

So this session, we're going to hear from three of our colleagues, outstanding colleagues that have done amazing things in their career and they've been formally recognised for their service to Australia. So we've got Caroline Edwards, Andrew Todd and Stephanie Foster who are going to join us for this session.

You will have an opportunity to ask some questions shortly so please be ready to do so using the Slido app. For those of you in the room, you'll need to log onto Slido and the details are behind me on the screen. For those of you that are online, all the details should be appearing on your screen quite shortly. You can submit questions at any time during the session and you can also vote for questions submitted by others.

So let me begin by introducing our panel members for today. So sitting closest to me is Caroline Edwards. She is currently the Associate Secretary at the Department of Health where she's been performing a pretty important role in assisting us in our COVID response and also in the vaccine rollout. Caroline has been the deputy secretary in a number of departments, including Health, Prime Minister & Cabinet and also the former Department of Human Services. Caroline's career has focused mostly in social policy including remote service delivery and Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander land and housing programs. She has also spent 10 years in the Northern Territory where she's worked for Aboriginal legal aid. Caroline was awarded a public service medal in this year's Australia day honours list and I'd like to just read the citation to you. And I know that Caroline is probably squirming as I do so, but she deserves all the praise. So this citation reads, "For outstanding public service to the development and implementation of health and social policy and leading the government's health response to COVID-19."

Our second panelist is Andrew Todd who's sitting in the middle there. We're really lucky to have Andrew with us today as he actually retired from the public service not long ago. So we're very pleased that he's been able to come back in and join us for this event today. Andrew is the former Head of the Consular and Crisis Management Division in the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade. And this is the area of DFAT that is responsible for assisting Australians who need help overseas. Andrew began his career in the former Department of Social Security before joining DFAT in the early 90s. His DFAT career included postings to Washington and also London where he was Deputy High Commissioner. He was then asked to head up the Consular and Crisis Management Division. In this role, Andrew dealt with some incredibly challenging and confronting international crises including the aftermath of the White Island volcano eruption back in December, 2019. Among his most recent responsibilities before his retirement was bringing home Australians from COVID affected cruise ships from around the world. Andrew was awarded the Public Service Medal earlier this year also and he was awarded the medal for outstanding service through the development and implementation of Australian government policy on consular matters and in the response to offshore crises.

Our third panelist is Stephanie Foster. Stephanie is currently the Deputy Secretary Governance and also Head of APS reform at the Department of Prime Minister & Cabinet. Stephanie has more than 30 years of public sector experience. She has been the Deputy Australian Public Service Commissioner, that's not a bad gig, and has also held deputy secretary roles within the infrastructure and regional Australia portfolio. Stephanie's early career though was a little bit different. She was really working in the intelligence and international policy area within the Department of Defence. And this included three years representing Australia at the National Security Agency in Washington. And it was while she was working in Defence that Stephanie was awarded the Public Service Medal in 2008 for her policy support to Australian Defence Force deployments overseas. Stephanie has also been formally recognised by the French government for her work to develop relations between France and Australia. And I might just mention now that Stephanie will be sneaking away a little bit earlier. She has a meeting that she can't say no to, but hopefully we'll be able to actually have plenty of questions before that occurs.

And I'll just stop there and just ask you in the room. Could you please welcome the terrific panel that we've got today.

All right, so I'm going to kick off the questions while everybody's busy voting and writing questions on Slido. And it really goes to why we're here today and the topic which is Spirit of Service. What I'd like is for each of our panelists to briefly reflect and this might be their personal reflections, on the topic of this discussion and what Spirit of the Service really means to them. So Caroline, as you're sitting closest to me, do you mind going first?

[CAROLINE EDWARDS, PSM, ASSOCIATE SECRETARY, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH]

Thanks very much Mary and thanks for inviting me today, it's a great pleasure.

 I've been thinking hard about this question and wanting to say something that was a little meaningful but without being too twee, so let's see if I succeed.

 It seems to me that the core thing of public service has to do with our motivation. We're well paid and we have good conditions in the public service, although in 2020, my hourly rate was actually rather low in the end. But most public servants, and we've seen this in numerous surveys, do what they do because they have an overwhelming desire to serve the public and to deliver services and policies and actions for the good of their fellow Australians and other people in our nation. But they do that not for their own personal benefit but because of the great satisfaction. And there are many other people in Australia who also do what they do because they want to help their fellow Australians. But the difference for public servants I think is it's overlaid with an essential amount of humility. We don't get to choose what it is that is best for Australians, we perform our duties for the government of the day and we do what it is the government decides is the right thing to do and that makes us unique. It means we have to actually concede to the democratic process and what the government decides to do is imperfect in many ways, but it is the best possible proxy we have for what Australians want and need and how we can make our country go forward. And in that way, wanting to serve that purpose means that we are an absolute bedrock of democracy. Perhaps I'm overstating, but I do feel like we've demonstrated that over the last year and throughout, that we have a special role and the spirit of the public service is wanting to do what we're told to make Australia better.

[MARY WILEY- SMITH, DEPUTY AUSTRALIAN PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSIONER]

Yeah. Well said Caroline, and so over to you, Andrew.

[ANDREW TODD PSM, FORMER FIRST ASSISTANT SECRETARY, DEPARTMENT OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS AND TRADE]

Thank you and thank you for inviting me today.

So I've had the advantage of reflecting for the last couple of months on 35 years service for the Australian government and the two things that really struck me is that even working for most of my career with the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, how every day, no matter what job I had whether it was in Australia, overseas, managing HR, looking after APEC, was how each day I could reflect on what I'd actually done to help Australians to either be safe, secure, or prosperous and it sounds a bit trite to say it that way but we heard the minister talk about a citizen centric approach. And it's actually very interesting, it was always a good barometer for me to know that I was on task is, what did I actually do today or how does my job actually contribute to one of those three things and it's actually a lot easier to do than you think it is.

And the second thing that I've really reflected on is just the amazing professionalism of the Australian Public Service and as we look at what happens in other countries with changes of governments and whispers in the wind here about a change of government here. When I talked to friends and colleagues in other countries around the world, just the immense stability of the Australian public service on a Friday afternoon to have completed two versions of a book, a red book and a blue book. And on the Monday morning, we are implementing diligently, professionally something that could have been quite different from what we were doing on Friday afternoon. And that's quite an extraordinary skill and I think that to me is one of the central elements of the spirit of service, is the professional impartiality of the Australian public service.

[MARY WILEY- SMITH, DEPUTY AUSTRALIAN PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSIONER]

Thanks very much. That's terrific, thank you Andrew. Over to you Stephanie.

[STEPHANIE FOSTER, PSM, DEPUTY SECRETARY, DEPARTMENT OF THE PRIME MINISTER AND CABINET]

Thanks Mary. And lovely to be here with you all today, live and virtually.

So like my colleagues, I also reflected deeply on this as I drove in this morning and I would have to say that I didn't have a sense of the spirit of the service as I was joining the service. I was just so delighted that there was an organization that wanted to employ an honours arts graduate with a major in English literature and German philosophy. It seemed sort of bizarre that there was anyone out there who wanted me.

And growing up in Melbourne and in a sort of professional family where public servants were seen as strange things, it took me a long time to actually become really proud of being a public servant and what I did. And I remember this absolute watershed moment in about 2004 during the Aceh tsunami. And I'd been dragged back from leave as we all were. And it was really tough, not just the intensity and the seriousness of the task we were working on, but the horror that we were witnessing every day. And I'm sure you can remember, there were massive trucks moving dead bodies. It was monstrous in every way. And the same hypercritical family were all of a sudden all deeply envious. And I thought, what are they envious of? And it was because we had the opportunity to make a real difference about something that really mattered. And when I reflect on what it is that we do every day, whatever level we are, whatever role we're in, it's that sense of privilege to be in a position where you can actually make an impact whether it's internationally or on the lives of your fellow Australians. And so for me, the spirit of service is actually embodied in that sense of, wow, aren't we so lucky to have the opportunity to do what we do?

[MARY WILEY- SMITH, DEPUTY AUSTRALIAN PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSIONER]

Thanks very much Stephanie.

In your discussion and you actually talked about kind of joining the service. What made you join the service apart from the fact that somebody wanted someone with arts and philosophy?

[STEPHANIE FOSTER, PSM, DEPUTY SECRETARY, DEPARTMENT OF THE PRIME MINISTER AND CABINET]

So I think that question better go to someone else because there's nothing deeper that I can say.

[MARY WILEY- SMITH, DEPUTY AUSTRALIAN PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSIONER]

All right, that's good. We might go to other panelists then, so Andrew.

[ANDREW TODD PSM, FORMER FIRST ASSISTANT SECRETARY, DEPARTMENT OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS AND TRADE]

Yeah, so it's very interesting. So, I was working in the non-government welfare sector actually here in Canberra and was invited to apply for a job in the then Department of Social Security. And it really struck me is that it gave me an amazing sense to help shape policy and service provision towards, in those days, people with disabilities and it's very interesting that my career has been bookended by providing services directly to Australians and starting off here in Canberra. But it was really a sense that I had that, probably very naive in your twenties, you think you can change the world but it was incredible that within the second week I was actually drafting papers that were going to cabinet that actually led to changes in federal government legislation. I thought, oh, you can actually make a difference. And that was it, so it was a real sense of wanting to make a difference for a particular smaller segment but important segment of the Australian community, yeah.

[MARY WILEY- SMITH, DEPUTY AUSTRALIAN PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSIONER]

Thanks, that's awesome.

[CAROLINE EDWARDS, PSM, ASSOCIATE SECRETARY, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH]

Well, I fell into public service by accident. I actually grew up in Canberra and swore that I would never work in the public service. When I was working as a commercial lawyer in Melbourne, my mother got really ill and I wanted to come back to Canberra and I rang up some random contact officer actually in the Department of Prime Minister in Cabinet and said, can start tomorrow, have you got some photocopying or something? And she said, "Oh, actually," and I have tell you there was an appeal. But it all turned out okay.

[MARY WILEY- SMITH, DEPUTY AUSTRALIAN PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSIONER]

-So, mine was also kind of by accident. I didn't really want to join the public service but my husband-to-be lived here and I needed a job. And then I realised what a wonderful place that it was to work.

So I've got one more question before we actually go to the live questions that people are voting on and we can start to see what the really the really popular ones are here.

But I'm just wondering before we do that, what's your proudest moment in the public service? Do you have a moment where you say, actually, that's what I'm never going to forget and that I'm really proud of what I did and the people I worked with?

[ANDREW TODD PSM, FORMER FIRST ASSISTANT SECRETARY, DEPARTMENT OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS AND TRADE]

Yes, I've been fortunate in the last several years working for the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade to have a number of moments that were really quite amazing. And just quickly two of them. One was when I had the privilege of leading a team that was responsible for the logistics and putting that into effect to return to Australia some orphans and some unaccompanied minors from Syria. And to watch a team of junior colleagues from the APS, fives, sixes, EL1s, volunteering to drive to the border of Northern Iraq with a security escort to greet these distressed young children, take them to a safe place in Northern Iraq, hold them there for a while with some danger and then get them out of the Middle East. And for me, the moment was getting some live feed photos of the kids at the border. Shocked, terrified, disbelieving, didn't know what was happening. 36 hours, the same young person, one of them, with the biggest broadest smile on his face as he was ushered into his business class seat on a wonderful Middle Eastern airline bound for Australia. He was an orphan and that smile will stay with me for life.

And the second moment is having had the absolute privilege of coordinating the Australian government's whole of government response to get Australians who've been kidnapped or arbitrarily detained out of extraordinary circumstances and to see again, the work of colleagues around the world and in Canberra and getting, live feed on the mobile phone about the extraction of Tim Weeks from Afghanistan, from the hold of the Taliban. And literally, the Black Hawk has landed, we have our eyes on him. And he was picked up by an EL1 colleague from the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade who'd had gone into harms way, one of our regional consul officers, an incredible woman. That's just an extraordinary moment about what what you can do and what you can achieve. So, sorry, that's a bit long-winded but quite amazing moments and it's just about individuals and what you can do to make that happen.

[MARY WILEY- SMITH, DEPUTY AUSTRALIAN PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSIONER]

Yeah, and so you've just given us an amazing kind of insight into the work of staff in the consular area in DFAT and what they do just on a daily basis because there's millions of things you could have just talked about but you've just chosen a couple. I don't actually quite know how your colleagues here on the panel are going to beat that, but we're going to try and so-

[ANDREW TODD PSM, FORMER FIRST ASSISTANT SECRETARY, DEPARTMENT OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS AND TRADE]

This one can come up with

[MARY WILEY- SMITH, DEPUTY AUSTRALIAN PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSIONER]

So Stephanie, would you like to go first and then I'll go to Caroline?

[STEPHANIE FOSTER, PSM, DEPUTY SECRETARY, DEPARTMENT OF THE PRIME MINISTER AND CABINET]

Sure. And like Andrew, as I was thinking about this question, I was thinking about some of the extraordinary examples of bravery and courage that I'd seen in my international policy days.

But the thing that actually sort of stood out for me as I reflected across was something that sounds very much more mundane. And I think this was so special because it wasn't glorious and it wasn't people who genuinely get noticed. So I was in the Department of Infrastructure, brand new in fact in the Department of Infrastructure when we were asked to deliver the billion dollar stimulus package to local government after the global financial crisis and leading an area in which no one had much confidence. And the grants areas in infrastructure are always getting beaten up. They're always getting terrible audit reports. It doesn't matter how hard they work, it seemed that they were disappointing everyone. And all of a sudden we had to do a billion dollars in an incredibly short time frame. And no one believed that they could do it and they did. And to watch a bunch of project managers and people processing applications and going through the agonising process of ringing councils that didn't want to know us even though there was free money to hand out, to make sure that in every single one of those 564 local councils and shires, there was economic activity happening, was the most inspiring and rewarding thing that I can remember.

[MARY WILEY- SMITH, DEPUTY AUSTRALIAN PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSIONER]

Thanks very much for sharing that with us Stephanie.

[CAROLINE EDWARDS, PSM, ASSOCIATE SECRETARY, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH]

I'm not sure I can compete with other of these but I'm sure it won't surprise you to know that I'm probably most proud of the first four or five months of last year when I was recalled to Health on the 24th of February, for a month. And during that period between the 24th of February and about June, I mean, things continuing now and so on, but the health response, going from no tests to lots of tests, from not enough hospital beds to plenty of hospital beds. From testing and tracing relationship with the States but the thing about that isn't why I'm a bit uncomfortable with the whole PSM thing is that, I mean, leadership's important, but it was a team at Health and one that I think people who know us and how we're a very tight team at health, to do all of that stuff. And I can honestly say that in those months, I can not remember a single cross word amongst any of the senior staff I dealt with or any patch protection or anything. And in fact, the biggest discussions we had about, it's time you went home, so that was incredibly proud.

But also on the micro, one thing I'm really proud of from a long time ago and I think in about 2002, and I worked in a relatively small, very dispersed agency and I reached out one day and I'm a reasonably shy, retiring type, reached out one day from my little office in part of the organisation to the biggest, most powerful office and demanded that they intervened in a bullying situation of a colleague who was suffering incredibly. And the organisation a little bit, slowly did respond and this particular officer was removed from the situation. And it was something I'd never thought I could do, but did and probably that's what I've taken with me as what you're capable of.

[MARY WILEY- SMITH, DEPUTY AUSTRALIAN PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSIONER]

Yeah. That's, oh, wow. And it's really important kind of personal reflections there but I'm sure Caroline, that what you've just said at the end just resonated with everybody online and in the room here. So thank you very much for sharing.

What I am going to do now is actually move to the interactive Q and A. So all our colleagues that are online and in the room here have actually been voting on some questions and there are three that are getting quite a number of, or four that are getting quite a number of votes at the moment. Because we've started to talk about career and what's happened and spirit of service and what you're most proud of, I'm going to go to the third most popular question to start with because I actually think it continues on the personal journey and insights that you might like to share with all of our colleagues online and in the room. And so I'm going to ask you what your biggest mistake is in your career and how did you bounce back? And just so everybody knows, I've made lots of them and I try to share them as much as I can, but it's important to kind of learn from your mistakes and I think share them and talk about it so you can help others so that they don't make the same mistake. So in that spirit, I'm going to say, who would like to go first on the panel?

[ANDREW TODD PSM, FORMER FIRST ASSISTANT SECRETARY, DEPARTMENT OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS AND TRADE]

Well, I'll go first because mine was recently. Nothing to do with me retiring from the public service.

Yes, we were required to provide very rapid advice to the government, to the prime minister about a particular issue affecting Australians overseas. And we were under immense time pressures and a lot of people ringing, a lot of people calling. I signed off on some advice to the prime minister and then very quickly, thanks to our robust media in the country, it wasn't exactly correct. But we'd gone out there, we'd set it, the prime minister had made an announcement and it was my responsibility because it had come from my division. What did we do about it? Well, two things that were amazing, I had the most incredible support from my agency head that yes, these things happen, this is what we do about it. And what we did about it is that we fessed up and said we had made a mistake. We issued a public statement to the media and said that the department had provided incorrect advice to the government. The correct advice is X and we move forward. Now it was 36 hours from hell, I probably didn't sleep. I thought the world as I knew it was going to end. I'd be summarily dismissed. It was gone, done and dusted. So the two things I took out of that. One is fessing up quickly and acknowledging the mistake and rectifying it. The more you try to hang in there, it won't work. And the second thing is that the support you provide to others who find themselves in that situation was amazing. So my agency head sat with me in my office as we drafted the statement to the media. My agency head sat with me as we spoke to the minister's office about it and the prime minister's office about it, quite extraordinary, so mistakes do happen, big mistakes do happen, it's not too good to see, your name in the paper and that it was your advice, but you can get over it.

The other lesson is and it's the hardest one, is to try and slow down. And it's very easy to say, but when you've got your phone ringing off the hook, WhatsApp messages, Signal messages, emails, "We needed a decision, we needed a decision, what's the answer, what's the answer?" Is to, as much as you can, take a breath and try and find some space to make the decisions. Not always possible, but that's a recent example.

[MARY WILEY- SMITH, DEPUTY AUSTRALIAN PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSIONER]

Thank you very much. That's a good one, Stephanie.

[STEPHANIE FOSTER, PSM, DEPUTY SECRETARY, DEPARTMENT OF THE PRIME MINISTER AND CABINET]

So I have one specific thing and one more general.

 So the specific was when I first, when you're in Defence, you don't engage a lot with ministers unless you're in specific jobs. And so I was really quite senior before I started this gig of going to estimates and being with ministers a lot. And I'm a super responsive person. And I was getting pushed and pushed and pushed closer and closer and closer to a line of what was really appropriate. And there was a point at which I didn't really know where that line was anymore and I probably just drifted over it. And I was looking at some of the things that I'd done thinking, wow, how did I say yes to that? How have I put my organisation at risk, my minister at risk by not being clearer about where the line was and when I should be saying, "No, I'm sorry, I can't do that." And like Andrew, I kinda thought this was life as I knew it, over. And that the subsequent ANAO report and my appearance before estimates over it would be the last day I spent in the public service. And of course, it wasn't, life goes on but it was an incredibly important lesson. And it gave me the courage subsequently to be really clear about what was appropriate, what wasn't, and how to find the balance between always trying to fulfill and help your minister and doing that in a way which protects both him or her and you.

The more general one was actually a more personal thing. And it was about the journey of learning that it wasn't all about me. And when you're getting promoted rapidly and you're effective in your job, and you're getting lots of encouragement and support, it's really easy to fall into a trap of thinking that you can do something and that if you just try harder, this will work. And of course, real leadership is not about you, it's about your team. And not only are you incredibly more effective when you're really, really drawing on your team, but you're investing in the future of the service by making sure that it's not actually about an individual, it's about a whole capacity that's being built.

[MARY WILEY- SMITH, DEPUTY AUSTRALIAN PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSIONER]

Thanks Stephanie.

[CAROLINE EDWARDS, PSM, ASSOCIATE SECRETARY, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH]

Thanks, just as an aside, when you go for a job interview and the panel asks you what was a big mistake, learn from today, don't say I was too smart or too far ahead of my staff and they can't keep up. We're actually really looking for genuine self-reflection and I've been going through the whole ticks of my mistakes. And if you Google Caroline Edwards, $37,000, you'll find a doozy. But the one I really, Not much as it ... too much tax payer money.

 But the one I wanted to mention has happened very early in my career and it was an act of omission. It was one of those days when for some reason the FAS and the Dep Sec and the branch manager, I might've been acting, can't remember, were all away and I ended up in this really big meeting with the minister a long time ago, minister shall not be named. And the minister was talking about what the minister was going to do in this particular report that was about to go public. And I knew it was a really bad idea. And I knew it would be divisive and I knew it would offend a lot of people and I knew it would haunt us for a long time and nobody asked me, but I knew it. And I didn't say anything. And I sat there thinking, it's not really my place. The minister was pretty adamant about doing it anyway and perhaps if I'd said what I thought, the minister would have gone on and done it anyway, but I didn't. And it's one of those ones that stays with me. It's a reasonably seminal public thing that comes back to haunt me still. And it's certainly my ongoing cautionary tale. So one, I've had to accept that I was complicit in that divisive thing in our community for a long time ongoing, but also I've tried my hardest never to do it again. And those who know me, I'm often the naysayer in a meeting is because I remember that day and I've never regretted since saying the different view, even though sometimes it's made me unpopular, but I still feel like that's one of the greatest mistakes I've made and one which couldn't be repaired.

[MARY WILEY- SMITH, DEPUTY AUSTRALIAN PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSIONER]

Yeah. Thank you very much, Caroline.

It's so important sometimes to actually hear from people that have been in the service for a while and the kind of lessons that they've learned and it's one of the things that Peter and I have been talking about in how we actually create more of these opportunities for the future, because it is how we can learn, understand, make good judgements and so thank you very much for sharing your greatest mistakes.

So, moving on to the most popular question I think that we can see up there and the question is what core skills and character traits do you think are the most needed in future APS leaders? So who would like to go first, Stephanie, you're smiling and so I'm going to go straight to you.

[CAROLINE EDWARDS, PSM, ASSOCIATE SECRETARY, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH]

There's a question somewhere else in here. I don't know if I'm supposed to do this, but talking about the difference between specialists and generalists. And I've been thinking about this a lot given last year, we all had to turn our minds to things we weren't specialists in and so on. So I think the way to answer that is to say that one, we need a great diversity of types of skills, people who are louder or softer or more data driven or less and all of those skills. But what we really need is diversity and a suite and to be a senior person in the public service, I very very strongly believe that you can have your special skills, your sweet spot, but you need to have the full suite. So you need to be able to be soft in a meeting, you need to be able to be firm in a meeting, you need to be able to do the range of things and every time I hear someone say, "Oh, so-and-so they're terrible at X, but they're really great at Y," I think I don't want to promote that person because actually they need to be able to do the range of things to be a very senior public servant, or at least to really acknowledge what it is they can't do and have a way of filling that gap. So I'm looking, I think that the day of the generalist has risen again a bit and we're looking for people with all those skills and to come from all the different types of backgrounds and so on that mean that you've got in a team, the full diversity.

[MARY WILEY- SMITH, DEPUTY AUSTRALIAN PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSIONER]

Thank you.

[ANDREW TODD PSM, FORMER FIRST ASSISTANT SECRETARY, DEPARTMENT OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS AND TRADE]

So I spent most of my public service career in an agency that encouraged people to move jobs, either offshore or onshore. And so when I was in charge of HR and learning and development, I described it to graduates as a lifelong apprenticeship, that you can always pick up additional skills and attributes, so I'm in the camp of the generalist. And when I look at what DFAT colleagues have been able to do, it's that adaptability and flexibility when you ask for volunteers in our post in Shanghai to drive to Wuhan where we had no physical presence to manage the evacuation of two flights of Australians. None of the people who went in there had managed an evacuation before, but again, skilled EL1 APS6 officers who'd done a variety of things before were spot on. And how they were able to do is because they had not just been a China specialist, they had a knowledge in whatever language was pretty useful but they had done a raft of other things. And all throughout the last several years when I've seen DFAT be able to turn itself on its head to do what we thought was impossible, it was because we just had this carter of people who'd done a whole range of different things throughout their career that enabled them to be adaptable and flexible and responsive. So I think one of the questions there was about specialised or broader experience. I think the broader experiences you can get, the better equipped you'll be to the challenges that get thrown to you when you get into senior positions.

[MARY WILEY- SMITH, DEPUTY AUSTRALIAN PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSIONER]

Thank you.

[STEPHANIE FOSTER, PSM, DEPUTY SECRETARY, DEPARTMENT OF THE PRIME MINISTER AND CABINET]

So I'm at risk of sounding like my great aunt Muriel, but I reckon there are some really basic things like common decency, hard work, commitment to others, collaboration, that really make the great people in the APS stand out from the others. So everyone's pretty smart. People are either great specialists or great generalists but it's those people who can put their head down and get the job done on whom you can rely to deliver results in a really good way. I.e a way that brings people with them. It's those who care about their staff and their colleagues and their boss, never forget to love your boss 'cause not many people do. Who inspire and motivate those around them. They're the public servants who make us the service that we are. And so when we do our talent management work, we have a kind of a principle that we know that people have to reach a certain cognitive level. You gotta be smart to deal with the kind of complexity we deal with, but that's not the distinguishing factor. The distinguishing factor are people who are open to learning, who are great working with other people, who have high EQ and so, certainly when I'm looking for staff, I want the core skills but I want that package more than I want anything else.

[MARY WILEY- SMITH, DEPUTY AUSTRALIAN PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSIONER]

Thanks very much. It was a very comprehensive answer to two questions I think which is you've just outdone yourselves and so we probably might move to the third question that was there before, which is really around, and it's popped down to fourth, but we can see the voting is actually happening fast and furious at the moment. But how do we make sure that we embrace the best new approaches adopted over the last 12 months in the public service and don't revert to the old ways post pandemic? And this is a question that's asked a lot in the service at the moment and it's quite topical and we can also see that sometimes it's actually played out in the media.

Who would like to go first on this one?

[STEPHANIE FOSTER, PSM, DEPUTY SECRETARY, DEPARTMENT OF THE PRIME MINISTER AND CABINET]

This kind of plays to my reform hat a little bit because one of the things that we have tried to do with the APS reform agenda is accept that the world changed a lot since December 19 when the government released Delivering for Australians. And that if we're going to have an APS in which continuous growth and reform is present, then we're going to have to make sure what we do is relevant to what's actually happening in the service. And so over the past year, we tried to pick a number of things which were real and relevant for people rather than saying initiative 49 in the report said, we should have a vision, therefore we're going to do some workshops on vision. And one of the first things that we actually picked out was how do we capture what it was that we did throughout 2020 and institutionalise that? And the delightful thing about all the work we did last year but particularly that one was that the secretaries took an enormous and personal ownership of it. And in that respect, they made an open mutual commitment that they would continue to share information with each other in a really timely way to enable the best outcomes to happen and that they would drive that culture of sharing through their organisations no matter what the pressures were from above. And, speaking frankly, we all know that sometimes we're under pressure to just work on something in our silo, keep it to ourselves until it's delivered. They also committed to doing things like scenario planning so that they were anticipating the challenges coming up and working together collaboratively on how they wanted to tackle them. And I know that everything doesn't happen at the top but without that leadership commitment, we're not going to keep doing those terrific things that we did so well together last year.

[MARY WILEY- SMITH, DEPUTY AUSTRALIAN PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSIONER]

Thanks, Stephanie.

[CAROLINE EDWARDS, PSM, ASSOCIATE SECRETARY, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH]

I just want to add, thank you Stephanie, that one of the things that I'm really conscious we shouldn't do is make sure we're ready for another pandemic. And there's been a bit of that around. We need to have this equipment or do this stuff or be because the next thing that'll happen probably won't be a pandemic. What we need to do is take away from this that we need to be ready for something that we weren't expecting, that will completely shift the way we do it. So to know how we can be in a way that we've got teams that back one another up, that are agile, that can move around the communication levels that Stephanie's talking about and so on. And so that's the key thing for me is we want to say, well, let's make sure we've got 50 billion surgical masks for the next pandemic, I have been asked that. But that's not the answer, the answer is how can we be ready to move where we need to go next and have the trust?

I would say so one other thing, which is over a million years, I remember Peter Shergold posing the question, how come we're so good in emergency and we're not so good when we're not in emergency? And I've been reflecting about this and I think maybe we're looking at it a bit glass half full. I mean, the fact that we are really good in an emergency when we've got a clarity of purpose, where it's clear what's needed to be done and we throw ourselves of it, is actually one of the greatest assets of the public service and we probably should ramp up when there's an emergency like that. So of course, we've got to keep those ways, but I for one, I'm going to stop beating myself up for not behaving like it was April last year, all of the time.

[MARY WILEY- SMITH, DEPUTY AUSTRALIAN PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSIONER]

Yeah, that's good.

 One of the things that has happened and I'm sure that both Stephanie and Caroline can vouch for me on this one, is that we've seen our whole senior service work together very closely. And so that was something that happened during the crisis and it's continued to happen now. And I know that's something that I think the secretaries board really want us to continue with and it's great for us because so many more people involved in something just makes the whole process a lot easier. And it means that the service is operating as one which is something that Assistant Minister Morton talked about in his speech.

So, I'm going to go to the next question, that is the most popular. Which we've got 93 yes votes for this one and that is around the perception of the APS among the broader Australian community. How can we lift that perception?

Who would like to go first? Andrew.

[ANDREW TODD PSM, FORMER FIRST ASSISTANT SECRETARY, DEPARTMENT OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS AND TRADE]

I think for many, many years that we've been not encouraged to tell the good stories and it was very heartening to hear that actually here in this wonderful building, there will be something devoted to the public service and telling those untold stories about everything that happens across the APS whether it's the Bureau of Meteorology, incredibly skilled consul offices in DFAT going into harms way, people processing passports miraculously in two hours to enable something to happen. We were trying to organize flights out of Wuhan and they became an issue with passports for the flight crew and the staff, the ones that they currently had weren't going to be accepted by another country. So our passports office in Sydney opened at 11 o'clock at night, brought people in and issued 40 new passports that were ready at first thing in the morning to go to another embassy to get visas put in, that's quite extraordinary. This is just people out there living in the suburbs of Sydney, who yes, we need to do that, it's an incredible story and I think we, people complain about the taxes, where does it go? What happens with it? But to actually be able to hear those sorts of stories. And we are in a very difficult situation that we work for the government of the day and they want to talk a lot about what they're responsible for and they are responsible for making all those things happen. But I think we can do a lot better job in actually promoting, we've got to come out of our shells and be a lot more prepared to talk about who we are and what we do and I think what's going to happen here is an extraordinary first step.

[MARY WILEY- SMITH, DEPUTY AUSTRALIAN PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSIONER]

Thanks very much.

[CAROLINE EDWARDS, PSM, ASSOCIATE SECRETARY, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH]

Yeah, no, I agree with all of that. And you would have seen the Department of Health has got this media presence now that is very different than, we've got a whole talent team in our place. But I would make one other sort of slightly different point which is that we need to be careful about where the perception is needed or whether it's a good thing. It's like when you go to a good restaurant with good friends and you're talking, it's that seamless service that you don't notice that actually is the highest quality and Medicare is a classic example. When you go to the doctor and you get your rebate and you stick your card in and out of the machine, nobody thinks about the public service for a moment. They don't interact with the public service, they don't talk to the public service, but it's one of the best systems like I mean, I'm out of date, but it's 98% or something of doctor visits are done electronically like that. It's the no perception which is actually a sign of success. So for lots of the things we do, if it can happen seamlessly behind the scenes, we've succeeded and nobody even needs to know we're there.

[MARY WILEY- SMITH, DEPUTY AUSTRALIAN PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSIONER]

Well said. How very true.

All right, so there's another question here that is related to the one talking about how do we keep going with what we've learned over the last 12 months and it's related to remote work. And I know that this comes up a lot and there's another one that, I think the Canberra Times and some of our media outlets spend a lot of time looking at. It's a challenge that isn't just unique to the Australian public service. It's all kind of businesses and across Australia and the world are looking at what it actually means for them. And so I might ask who would like to go first?

What impact will successful remote working acceleration have had for the APS and its staff?

Do you want me to, I can say a few things to start. Do you want to do that?

So we've been looking at this quite a lot and I'm quite passionate about it. For me, I actually think that it means that people into the future will be able to work where they live and that's pretty important. They still kind of need balance and the connection with their work colleagues, but the world's opened up. I was the deputy on the chief operating officer committee quite a few months ago. And I can see Jackie Curtis is here, she was here as well and Tom. We were looking at how on earth we're going to move people to working from home when we had to when the restrictions hit. We didn't think we could do it. Our IT, people didn't think we could do it. And it was amazing what the public service did when we all got together and we had to actually move people to remote working. It's successful, it's removed a barrier that we had before and so the opportunities for the public service are there and we have to be very mindful of making use of the opportunities because the private sector and our state and territory government colleagues will be looking at this as well. And so we've always been pretty good with the amount of flexible work and remote working that we have in the public service. I think the rates are just under 20% is what we had before the pandemic but this really opens up new options for us for who we employ and also new markets because you don't need to be in Canberra necessarily in the future to support some of the work that happens here. So I'm going to stop there but just see if Caroline would like to add anything.

[CAROLINE EDWARDS, PSM, ASSOCIATE SECRETARY, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH]

Just wanted to add a couple of little things.

At Health, we moved really quickly to remote work and we've basically stayed at about 50 to 60% in the office and that's going fine and we've adjusted to it and we all like it. And really interesting, I mean, sure, it's happened in every agency but our rate of unscheduled absences has gone down now. That's sort of self-evident because people are at home but it'd be really interesting to see how that helps with engagement and satisfaction and so on.

But the other two observations I make, one is, the productivity gain of not sitting at parliament house for hours and hours and hours waiting to go into a meeting. I mean, it's a small thing, but if someone did the maths on a back of an envelope, it's extraordinary that when your turn's up, you ring in and it's done, so that that's a little thing.

But the bigger thing, we've been talking for years about how do we make space in our day for the big thinking, for the proper long-term planning? All that sort of stuff, it's all responsive, that's been our challenge. It seems to me that this will help a lot because everyone's saying at our place anyway, "When I come to the work, I have all the meetings and I do all that engagement and talk to people and when I'm at home, I do the thinking and the responding and so on." I think actually it might be a bit of the golden ticket to help us with some of that stuff that people do build in by being at home and being at work, time for interaction and time for actually some of that more deep thinking and planning.

[MARY WILEY- SMITH, DEPUTY AUSTRALIAN PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSIONER]

Excellent. All right, so we're almost out of time. I've got one final question that I would like to ask you both. And it's basically, what is one piece of advice you would give your younger self? So early on in your career, what is it that you wish that you had known? Caroline.

[CAROLINE EDWARDS, PSM, ASSOCIATE SECRETARY, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH]

 I thought about this as well.

 I think I probably wouldn't have taken the advice I should add. But I think I would have told myself not to be such a good girl. To smile less, to talk more, to speak up more, to push forward, to not be waiting around for that much more older senior, more specialised person who's going to have the answers because I think we've all learnt in our own places that you've probably just got answers just as good as anybody else once you've read the data. So, I'm not sure people describe me as a good girl now but I think I probably would have. Well, I probably wouldn't have made that big mistake if I hadn't been such a good girl.

[ANDREW TODD PSM, FORMER FIRST ASSISTANT SECRETARY, DEPARTMENT OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS AND TRADE]

I think it's to sort of challenge ourselves to think the unthinkable and to try and avoid group think. Thinking the unthinkable became very relevant when I had to look after Consul and Crisis Management because you really did have to be so flexible because you thought you'd reached the zenith of complexity with getting orphans out of Syria then you had White Island with 14 critically injured Australians who needed to come back. And then you had Wuhan and you thought you had the answer. So always thinking that you can think there's something else lurking out there, are you ready for that? But also thinking the unthinkable is that sort of in my foreign policy experience, in the UK at the time of Brexit, we all got caught up to think that it wouldn't happen. We didn't really spend an equal amount of time thinking the unthinkable which was Brexit. Thinking who may or may not get elected to be president of the United States. We'd locked ourselves in I think, to a bit of a box. Well, that will never happen. It's unthinkable that, but we got caught out because we did that. So to try and challenge yourself to sort of think about things that may just lurk out at the dark at you but also don't get too locked into group think, don't become the naysayer all the time but just to think that, well, it could happen.

[MARY WILEY- SMITH, DEPUTY AUSTRALIAN PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSIONER]

Okay, so as you were both speaking just then, for everyone online, so, you know, we've actually got a whole line of graduates in the room sitting in the back over there and they're all listening very intently to what they need to know and some lessons that they might need to consider for their future careers.

So thank you very much and I'd really like to thank our panel for today. Both Caroline, Stephanie and Andrew for really participating in the panel with us, sharing their insights and reflections, but also for being so honest and open with us, including being very happy to share their mistakes. So please join me in thanking our panel.

I'd like to hand back now to Daryl Karp, who's the director of the Museum of Australian Democracy to close the formal proceedings for this event.

Thank you everybody.

[DARYL KARP, DIRECTOR OF THE MUSESUM OF AUSTRALIAN DEMOCRACY]

Can I thank everybody for their contributions but particularly our speakers. It just makes me feel so proud to be part of this extraordinary organisation.

To wrap it up, I would just like to encourage you to visit the Museum of Australian Democracy. If you don't come to specifically see what we're doing over here, come to see the APS exhibition which will be open at the end of May. It is in our most visited space. 200,000 people come through that space every year when it's a non-COVID experience. And we are really looking forward to working closely with the commissioner and all of you to develop our new substantial exhibition in the undercroft. And that was the reason we snuck out. The Canberra Times wanted a photograph of what it would look like, what it looks like now. And when you see it, don't panic, it's going to be special.

In wrapping things up, I always try to give a little snippet of information about the museum that people may not know. And as we're sitting here, I thought, what would I actually say to people who probably know more about how government works than I do? So I thought I would focus on the speaker's chair which was a gift to the museum from the British Empire Association. And the story that I suspect you may not know is that the reason it's still here and not up the hill is that it was built inside the building, it kind of came flat packed and it doesn't fit to take it out. So there is some joy in the Ikea approach to things. We have kept our magnificent object. Thank you all very much for joining us today. For those of you who are here in the chambers, there is tea in King's Hall, please join us. For those of you who are not in the chambers at home, go get yourself a cup of coffee and a cup of tea and reflect on that wonderful question, what makes you proud to be part of the public service?

 Thank you all very much indeed. Thank you very much, you are amazing.